YankeesRedSox.com

Andy, how have you been? Good Thanksgiving I hope. As for Johan, I agree the talent required to land him and the money required to extend him are larege but I would make the move if the Sox could get him for Buccholz or Lester (not both), CRISP, and a prospect (say Moss or Lowrie). Johan is just a phenomenal talent and you know the Yanks are going to make an effort to get him so getting him would be serve two purposes -- getting him and keeping him away from them. Anyway, just my thoughts. So glad to see Lowell signed and to end that dilemma.

Santana pitches every 5th game, right?

If the Sox had no pitching, I'd say he is worth it for that kind of money.

But

They do, so let him go to the Yankees or wherever. I like our chances to be in the hunt to repeat.

Jack, I worry about pitchers and long term, expensive deals. Examples include Pedro, Pavano, Neagle, Hampton. Of course positional players can fold too like Mo Vaughn, but history suggests pitchers are much harder to predict health wise.

So much money and so much talent. Too rich for my blood.

Hey, Happy Thanksgiving to you too. -Andy

Blmeanie, you are right, the staff is good, maybe not great, but good and there are 2 inexpensive, talented guys in Lester and Buccholz waiting to step in at $330k per season. The value is just too much to overlook.

I realize prospects are unproven, but the more you have, the more likely one will stick. Pass on Santana.

REd Sox can't afford to give up the little AAA talent that they have.

The Sox have been walking a line between being Yankees Lite and a team that seeks value. Overall, it's worked well for them. They've avoided long-term contracts at big money with aging players - excluding Schill and Lowell :-)
Santana is young, but may not be built for the long haul. Six years is a long time to be paying out $25M guaranteed, unless you are the Yankees. The Yankees generate enough cash to support a $200M payroll and the attendant luxury tax. The Sox have only 36,000 seats, fewer luxury boxes and a smaller TV market. They have limits. This is one of those times when they need to live within limits. they can't trade away inexpensive prospects and pay out $150M over six years.

Dave, I agree with you. I get blasted on this site all of the time when I try to point out the financial differences of the Red Sox and the Yankees. Yankees fans will typically look at the Red Sox payroll vs. the league average and say I'm full of it. But the fact remains, with all the things you mentioned, the Red Sox just don't generate as much revenue and have a much larger debt burden.

Add to it the Yankees have a new stadium next (2009) season and wow. They'll seat 51,800 with modern luxury boxes and modern everything. They'll have space!

So again, I agree, they have operated in a smart manner, using resources when needed, but also growing a bunch of their own talent. Well said David.

Andy, the Sox have proven they can win it all without Santana, and I don't believe the addition of Santana would cure all that ails the Yankees. Given that, I wouldn't part with the young arms right now. And I can't imagine trading Ellsbury under any circumstance given what he did in September and October (should his name come up in discussion).

The latest from rotoworld.com.

According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, the Twins will want Jacoby Ellsbury and either Clay Buchholz or Jon Lester from the Red Sox in a Johan Santana deal.

The Red Sox are believed to have declared Ellsbury off-limits in talks with the Twins. Minnesota is interested in Coco Crisp as well, but a Crisp-Lester package probably wouldn't get a deal done and the Red Sox may not be willing to part with Buchholz.

I might be willing to part with Coco and Lester and a prospect or even Coco, Buchholz for Santana. Does this change anyone's mind? It has to be as good a package as Hughes, the Melk-man, and a prospect. I would not give up Ellsbury or both Lester and Buccholz both.

Jack, interesting info. Having thought more about this, here are the Red Sox options:

Option 1:

Trade for Santana giving up: Crisp, Buccholz and let's say Masterson (price could be higher of course). That's a starter, a highly rated prospect who has a MLB no-hitter on his resume and a highly touted AA pitcher in Masterson (projects to be a Derek Lowe type).

So you make the deal and then you have to cough up $25mm a year for 6 years ($150mm total). Wow, a ton of scratch. Insurance on a deal like that (cost not part of the cap) is what, $15mm - $25mm over the life of the deal? So the cost ends up being 3 players and money. The benefit of course is that Santana is pitching for you and the Yankees didn't get him (nor did anyone else).

Option 2: Wait. Risk: MN still trades him to someone else, maybe the Yankees (better said "most likely the Yankees.").

If the Twins do not trade him, wait until July 2008, the trade deadline, and see if he is available then. If so, repeat option 1. If not, the Twins hang on to Santana b/c they either believe they can re-sign him, or they prefer the draft comp that comes from losing him in the free agent market. If the Red Sox try to sign him in the FA market, it'll cost them their first round pick in the 2009 draft. But the Red Sox don't lose any CURRENT prospects, just a 1st round draft pick. So what do you prefer? Trade for him now and give up current talent and pay a ton of cash, or wait 1 year and sign him as a free agent for a ton of cash and lose a 1st round pick? I say leave him alone and if he is available next year, strike hard.

Actually, what I would REALLY prefer is to let the Yanks trade Hughes etc for Santana and have to spend the money for him to extend him. Then make a trade with Oakland (providing Billy B. is in yet another rebuilding mode) for Danny Haren who is signed for the next 3 years for $16M+ TOTAL. Say Crisp and Lester for Haren. I would definitely like that a whole lot better, especially if the Yanks have to give up Hughes etc for Johan and don't get Petite back. I just think Theo and the Sox have an obligation to look into a deal for Johan. Besides, I believe that a package of Ellsbury/Lester/Buccholtz (which I would not give btw) is quite a bit better than a package of Hughes/Cabrera/prospect and a package of Crisp/Lester/prospect or Crisp/Buccholtz/prospect just may be better as well. I cannot stand the fact the Yanks seem to think they can offer whatever they want for premimum talent and the other team should just say "ok" because they are after all, the Yankees. Let them have Johan, get on the phone to Oakland and bring Haren to Boston. I would love Beckett, Haren, Dice-K, Buccholtz, Schillie and Wake in the wings even more than having Johan, especially looking at the financial side of it; $16M+ for 3 FREAKIN' YEARS is way cheap for his kind of talent even tho Haren fell off drastically in the second half last year as did the whole Oakland team. Sox could probably change that 2nd half swoon with Farrell and a strong offense backing him up.