TwitterThe Rocket
18 Jun 2012
Roger Clemens has been found not guilty of lying to Congress. Some will say being found not guilty does not mean you have been found innocent. Some will bring up O.J. Simpson being found not guilty of murder. Some will point out that a man is presumed innocent under our judicial system and therefore Clemens is innocent.
Wherever you stand, here’s my problem. Clemens may have done something, he may not have done something. It certainly hasn’t been proven that he took steroids. Yet, I think we can all agree that he won’t get much support if any, when his name comes up on the Hall of Fame ballot next year. And that strikes me as fundamentally unfair.
You can’t keep a guy out of the Hall of Fame because you suspect he did steroids. Take any player from the 1990′s and early 00′s and prove to me that he didn’t do steroids. We simply don’t know. Andy Pettitte hardly profiled as a drug cheat, but he has admitted that he was.
So Clemens will probably live out the rest of his days in a strange limbo. Suspicions will be used to keep him out of the Hall, but those suspicions will never be confirmed. Worse, he will never have a way to clear his name, today was about as close as he will get.
I think instead of trying to play judge and jury we should just all admit that we don’t know what happened. Pick a season, 1987 with its home run explosion seems right to me. Put up an exhibit between the plaques of those who entered the league before that era, or played the majority of their careers before it and those that entered afterwards, or played a majority of their career after it with an explanation of PED’s and a timeline of the major events. Then, vote everyone in or out based on their numbers and nothing more. So, Clemens is in, Bonds is in, Palmeiro is in, Piazza is in, etc.. (I don’t know about McGwire because he truly was a one-dimensional player) If they have admitted to steroid use, note that on the plaque. If they were accused of it, give the details of their conviction or acquittal.
It isn’t elegant, but I think it might be the fairest way to handle it. I suspect that some guys you would never think of as juicers did it with abandon. Until we know for sure who did what and when they did it, how can we judge any one individual, no matter what we think?
Jun 18, 2012 @ 19:06:32
I’ve totally softened and really don’t care anymore. Even Bonds, Clemens, Bagwell, etc. I don’t care. I don’t agree with the different wing theory because you could have a different wing for before racial integration and one for after, one for pre-expansion, one for after. One for pre-modern, one for after. One for pre-Bud Selig…ok, I saw the line and stepped over
Jun 18, 2012 @ 20:47:41
But, don’t you think that we clearly know that racial segregation started to end in 1947, while we don’t know when the “steroid era” ends?
Call me a cynic, but I don’t believe baseball has cleaned itself up, I think they have just driven the players to drugs that are harder to detect.
Jun 18, 2012 @ 23:58:10
Peter,
Hi.
If you’re looking for a perfect answer to delineating the PED era, you will probably be looking forever, amigo. My take is that baseabll is a great game played by always competitive, imperfect people. Hopefully, you can find a way to let some concerns go and just enjoy the game.
Peter, it’s a “very simple game” – one that isn’t enhanced by thinking too much. LOL. Yankees just won 10 in a row, life is good right now … enjoy it.
Jun 19, 2012 @ 07:23:38
with the news that the Braves’ best starter Brandon Beachy likely needs tommy john surgery, and the sheer number of pitchers that undergo that particular type of surgery don’t you wonder :
a) why more don’t learn the knuckleball (see Dickey)
b) why better mechanics aren’t taught more and insisted on to some degree?
Jun 19, 2012 @ 07:39:46
Mitchell
You’re right, but I promise you that I am enjoying the on the field stuff right now a lot.
First 10-game win streak since May 2005. As I recall, that was the one that got them out of the 11-19 hole.
Jun 19, 2012 @ 07:43:00
BL
I will bet that Dickey’s emergence will spur some people to try and pick up the knuckleball. But, I suspect that just like with Mariano’s cutter, few will succeed.
And I wonder if the problem is simply that humans weren’t built to try and throw 90+-mph overhand repeatedly?
Jun 19, 2012 @ 09:23:58
“And I wonder if the problem is simply that humans weren’t built to try and throw 90+-mph overhand repeatedly?”
I think not but there seem to be more and more that require the surgery. It almost is a given now that if you start, you will get this surgery. Should be part of the contracts that the 12-15 months you are out after surgery don’t count against the length of the contract…
Jun 19, 2012 @ 10:37:40
BL asked, “why better mechanics aren’t taught more and insisted on to some degree?”
Great question – I suspect the answer is that most HS and college coaches haven’t got a clue what a safe but effective pitching motion and release looks like. Not a clue. And that’s when the throwing mechanics need to be taught.
I suspect someone could make a decent living first understanding the bio-mechanics of a safe(r) delivery and then running a school for coaches (or for individuals) to propagate the findings. You can probably spot the problems waiting to happen if you film them and then slo-mo it. Sure would have some interesting clients as they progress up to tbe majors …
Jun 19, 2012 @ 11:04:55
so Nolan Ryan, from ’72-80 averaged 268 innings pitched per year and with varied control (especially early in his career) he must have averaged a high number of pitches per start/batter however you want to figure it.
The years he dipped significantly in innings pitched were strike years. I cannot ever remember him being on the DL.
He was a freak, got it. Didn’t he also have picture perfect mechanics? Shouldn’t he be teaching or at least trying to teach it on the Rangers now? Do the Rangers have less pitcher injuries now? Curious.
Jun 19, 2012 @ 18:55:46
Yep, he was “a freak” who threw three pitches his entire career. Fastball, curve ball and, eventually, a changeup. No slider, no sinker, no splitter, no knuckler, no knuckle curve, no slurve.
Some stat guy needs to be able to answer this question: what pitch is common to most TJ “victims” ?
Jun 19, 2012 @ 19:17:06
great question.
in my order of preference, I would like to know:
1) pitch common to TJ victims
2) franchise counts of TJ victims (tough with guys moving around)
3) Manager’s counts of TJ victims (See #2)
4) Pitching coach counts of TJ victims (same)
I wonder if there are behaviors that you can lump together that ultimately cause problems:
-pitch counts, babying pitchers
-lack of long toss
-little league coaches/dads encouraging curves etc. at a young age
Jun 19, 2012 @ 21:08:33
I think you would have to try and figure out exactly when pitch-count management came into vogue before embarking on that kind of study.
Let’s face it, until very recently kids and I mean kids, were being asked to throw a lot with little concern for when they last picked up a baseball. I’m talking about little league, high school, college, etc..
And I suspect some of Nolan’s success was due to his legs. They were massive, more like a running back’s than a pitcher’s.
Jun 19, 2012 @ 22:40:55
I will chime back in with what seems obvious to me, but hey, I have been wrong a few times in my life:
TJ surgery involves the elbow ligaments so there’s a motion that must stretch or tear those ligaments, no?. I point an accusing finger at sliders. Shoulder problems, dead arm problems (which are more likely shoulder problems) – I point an accusing finger at pitch counts and fast balls.
Nolan Ryan was an absolute beast – the guys that I talked to who faced him – to a man, they were all intimidated by him. There stories were: both his fastball and his cruve starting out at your ear. You prayed it was curevball that you were seeing. Legs, chest – whatever it was with that guy – he was a beast.
And yep, pitch counts would be a key data set to have to get to an answer or two here.
Jun 20, 2012 @ 07:14:34
what if, seriously, what if Ryan was ahead of times and was taking something? EVERYBODY gives him the benefit of the doubt, 100%. Those legs, Clemens had those legs too, same motion. I think Clemens actually copied Ryan’s motion to some degree early on.
Anyway, back on track- this morning on the ride in to work they had Kirk Radomski on the radio. Interesting stuff. He claims to be fearful while still on probation and only telling the truth…when pressed about depth of use etc. he said that he knew of a few big name surprises that were users that would shock people.
Jun 20, 2012 @ 16:01:46
nice pitcher’s duel going on at the stadium today
Jun 20, 2012 @ 20:08:47
I love a tight game like that – three up, three up even farther and three way the *&#$% outta here. Yup, it’s the year of the pitcher, sure.